But Ned's memories and associations with other people and locales ALSO include roses, and blood, and words, and cries, and beds.ģ. Nothing in the texts says that things Ned associates with Lyanna's death all have to happen in the same place. not a single clue points to her being at Starfall or anywhere other than ToJ and the idea she is somewhere else is made up out of whole cloth, ignores the fact that somehow Starfall thinks Wylla was Jon's mother and has no thought of Lyanna or any other mysterious woman and probably ignores half a dozen other things I can't think of.ġ. similarities and matches between the ToJ dream and Lyanna in her bed of blood memory, ignores the fact that 3. Which ignores the fact that the confrontation is at the ToJ, not Starfall, ignores all the 2. Okay, I'm going to break up this post because the last time I tried to respond to you, the site ate my post.ġ. Unless she has to be present in the rest of his associations, which I don't think you are arguing. The idea that the scream in the dream MUST prove Lyanna's at the tower seems unsustainable. If he can associate pale blue roses with Cersei's tale of her wedding night while awake, let alone all the rest of the above context of how Ned's memory and dreams have worked in the novel. 'I am going mad.'" Edward XV.Īll of that context seems to make it clear that Ned, waking and sleeping, combines all sorts of elements in his memory. "Promise me, Ned, his sister had whispered from her bed of blood.
#STARFALL GAME OF THRONES SOLIDERS FULL#
Then seeing the crown as full of thorns making him bleed. In the black cells, memory and nightmare combine in the recollection of Lyanna's crowning. When he's dreaming of the Winterfell crypts, his nightmare mind makes the crypt people and their wolf statues alive, puts the rose crown on Lyanna's statue's head, give Lyanna tears of blood, and lets her statue speak to him. When Cersei tells him about her wedding night: "Ned Stark thought of pale blue roses and for a moment he wanted to weep" (Eddard XII). He recalls her exact words re: her doubts about Robert's fidelity. In the scene with Barra's mother and the aftermath, he not only remembers Lyanna's asking for the promise and her deathbed. When he's thinking about Rhaegar's children and doubting Robert, he can still hear Sansa's cries and he heard Lyanna's. He remembers the whole scene in the crypts with Robert.Īpparently he has heard Lyanna's voice at least a few times prior to this scene. The scream implies she is strongly associated with the fight-Ned hears her scream as they come together in a rush of steel and shadow.īut Ned remembers and hears Lyanna in numbers contexts, in and out of dreams, as well as the blood, roses, cries, and promises. My apologies for imprecision of language.
So its a lie to claim nothing in the dream places her at ToJ. Even ignoring the dream title, Ned's mind places her there in the dream by the scream, one way or another. Or figuratively/symbolically/associatively if you prefer (I do). She is placed there in the dream by the scream, literally, if you insist on that.
The real point here is that the statement was made outright that nothing in the dream places her there, and thats wrong. You know I believe, and I know you disagree, that its Ned's description of the dream that proves she is there. The scream strongly implies she is there and is part of a collective of evidence that overall even more strongly implies she was there. Thats not the argument that its made though. If the mission was to save jon as the targaryen heir, why fight ned at all? The kg should have left with or without lyanna by sail like every other targaryen claimant did.if lyanna is sick and dying let her die and move on.find a wet nurse,andget theheir ovetseas.leaving by oldtown or starfall would be a simple task.just like aegon, just like viserys and daenerys.making a stand in fact became the worst thing they could do as they utterly failed in that task.jon fell to ned.the kg stand at the tower only makes sense if they felt jon was safe and secure somewhere else.otherwise one would have left with jon as a precaution.jon and lyanna were safe in starfall under daynish care and in disguise.as for rumours, starfall is in dorne and they have much more liberal views about bastards and paramours.a stranger girl with a mystery baby is of minor importance as none at starfall would know what lyanna even looks like.look how easy sansa hid in the vale at she had a price on her head for wouldnot be hard to come up with a cover story for a 16 year old girl and one could expect discretion in dorne of all places
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